You Want to be an Artist? You Need to Know This with Leanne Binder

[00:00:00] All right, hey episode five guys episode five

[00:00:07] I didn't no I did

[00:00:15] It's hard to imagine getting the episode five when you haven't even recorded episode one right?

[00:00:19] I mean

[00:00:20] Well, that makes sense about this fight. I was together as well. So that's sure that's another thing more than five, right?

[00:00:26] Because you know, everyone here's the edited

[00:00:30] episode that's an hour but we've been talking for more than five hours. The fact that you guys have put up with me

[00:00:37] For over five hours y'all should get a metal you know I've got your meat though, yeah

[00:00:49] Meals Mike has been muted final

[00:00:53] Sip of coffee

[00:00:57] Shoot anyway, so what's new with you guys?

[00:01:00] Well, the sun has finally come out in England after the

[00:01:05] All of rain for the past forever

[00:01:09] So that's that's pretty impressive. We're coming out of what was called winter, but I've I mean

[00:01:15] Genuinely it's been like 11 12 degrees every day for the whole of winter which is like the weirdest thing

[00:01:20] So 11 12 degrees that's for you Americans. I'm sorry. That's like

[00:01:24] What would that be?

[00:01:26] 60 some 50's right yeah

[00:01:29] Yeah, something around that it's been so non-seasonably warm

[00:01:33] It's been warm for us too. We've had a well

[00:01:36] We've had a couple of bouts of cold weather but I woke up today

[00:01:40] What this is the nearly the end of March when we're recording this and there's a good two inches of snow on the ground that wasn't forecasted

[00:01:50] So that's that's fun because it was like, you know 50 degrees a week ago and it's gonna be 50 degrees in a couple days so

[00:01:59] Welcome to Smarch it's been

[00:02:03] Unseasonably cool here like it's really cold outside like 70s. Oh

[00:02:08] Yeah, sounds awful

[00:02:12] Down here in a

[00:02:14] Freezing Florida right how small's up I'll in no no

[00:02:18] No, did you say that? No, you had like the world smallest violin he was playing there

[00:02:22] Tiny I'm so oh my gosh

[00:02:27] So I'm on spring break now. Woo hoo

[00:02:30] Oh nice you got the week off. Yeah, so I don't have to go to work for a week

[00:02:37] Nice

[00:02:38] Right on

[00:02:40] I'm gonna get my I'm gonna get myself ready by putting some comfortable headphones on you two chat for a second

[00:02:44] I'll be right back probably in time for the intro all right

[00:02:53] Headphones

[00:02:55] Yeah, I think he was wearing any years. I tried to wear my inniers yesterday

[00:03:00] And and I was like now not for a long conversation that they started to hurt after about 20 minutes

[00:03:05] I'm like yeah, I'm just gonna put on the the big ear moths

[00:03:09] Yeah, these are more comfortable than an in-ear. That's not sure that is better. Sorry about that

[00:03:15] I do use in ears for live shows, but yeah

[00:03:19] Yeah, I need to get my in ears molded to my ears

[00:03:23] I have some do that too. I have some molded ear plugs which were the best 200 bucks I ever spent

[00:03:28] Yeah

[00:03:29] They're fantastic and I picked up a pair of sure in ears and I need to get those molded as opposed to using the factory rubber tips

[00:03:37] But yeah, I've got those in my gig bag

[00:03:43] Yeah, I've got those in my gig bag all molded to my ears then not the ones I picked up this morning to do this podcast with

[00:03:49] I

[00:03:50] They were these old ones. Of course

[00:03:52] Box standard incest so of course why wouldn't you use the 200 pound molded teary ones? Yeah well done Ben

[00:03:59] Good skills now

[00:04:01] Now

[00:04:04] Should we get on with it should we get going? Ben we're so I

[00:04:07] Wanted to say one more thing just you know, it's our podcast so we can you know

[00:04:12] We can show off our shit

[00:04:14] Ben has a new song out

[00:04:16] It's it just came out but by the time everyone hears this is it'll have been out for a few months now

[00:04:23] But yeah, Ben walls of love. Yeah, is your new song

[00:04:28] Written by the homes produced by me next by me indeed. Yeah, mate good by you. Yeah, that's the

[00:04:37] Thank you and some other instrumentation from our friend Dan Under Adam Rogers on the lead vocals and

[00:04:45] Simon Carl stat on guitar he's in

[00:04:49] Sweden. Yeah, Stockholm. Sweden. Yeah, what a guitar. She's yes. He has right up now

[00:04:54] Right on will pass the link

[00:04:57] Since it's our show we can do that

[00:05:00] We'll post the link in the show notes for that song go and listen to it

[00:05:04] There I say smash that subscribe button on your favorite

[00:05:09] Streaming platform for Ben Holmes music. Yeah, and I can do another one pound 75

[00:05:16] Yeah, Ben can buy Ben can buy a cup of tea next time he goes out

[00:05:22] Amazing all right. Yeah for streaming royalties

[00:05:29] We're gonna talk about that today. Yes, we have we have someone very special

[00:05:34] That that knows all about this so

[00:05:37] Neil why not you tell us who we're talking to today

[00:05:41] Hi and welcome to sound discussion each episode we discussed a music topic which we've all had first-hand experience with

[00:05:49] These will be anything from getting started

[00:05:51] Recording playing live mixing mastering and everything in between

[00:05:57] Most episodes we will have a special guest to bring that professional experience to the discussion

[00:06:02] So let's get started

[00:06:07] Today we are happy to have with us an extremely talented musician and songwriter Lee Ann Binder

[00:06:13] She comes to us by the way of Lee Turner from episode three

[00:06:17] She is a native of the youngstown Ohio area and has established herself a premier vocal coach to clientele in the northeast

[00:06:26] Ohio

[00:06:26] Nashville, Tennessee and beyond she's toured the United States and UK promoting her music

[00:06:33] She also releases her music on her own record label and

[00:06:37] She consults with artists on building their profiles promoting self advocacy and guidance in the ever-confusing world of the music business

[00:06:46] There's a lot to unpack in today's discussion as we will be talking with Lee Ann about digital music distribution platforms

[00:06:53] Such as district kids CD baby and others music licensing through BMI or

[00:07:00] A-s-c-a-p

[00:07:01] Ask app I think what they are and if they're important for your music as well as stories and anecdotes from a season professional

[00:07:09] Who learn how to figure this all out for herself through the school of hard knocks literally

[00:07:15] One disclaimer before we begin though nothing discussed here can be constituted as legal advice and if

[00:07:21] You find that you have questions about the legality of releasing your music licensing, et cetera

[00:07:27] Then you should consult with a qualified and licensed entertainer entertainment attorney

[00:07:32] Welcome to the show Lee Ann. We are so happy to have you with us on this month's episode of sound discussion

[00:07:38] Hey guys, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for taking the time

[00:07:43] Absolutely yeah, I'm glad we could all manage to fit find the same same time being everybody all over the world

[00:07:54] We can if we get tricky

[00:07:56] Even if we don't all think the same time is the same time

[00:07:59] You know, I just I was in Nashville all week this week working and so I'm still an hour weird off

[00:08:06] And then forget it if it's Chicago like

[00:08:08] There's three or four time to change is and then depending on somebody decides to swing the clocks

[00:08:14] Forward or back over here, so I'm it's a blessing to also out we're here. We did it

[00:08:21] Yeah, you made it it's all good

[00:08:26] How was that how was that intro? Is there anything that that we need to

[00:08:31] Talk about real quick that we got wrong or expand upon I think it's great like I said the best thing with me is

[00:08:38] I did all do this all by myself and the hardest thing is that the

[00:08:44] Digital business world changes

[00:08:47] So quickly sometimes that I don't I don't stay up on this for a living like an entertainment lawyer would or

[00:08:55] You know somebody that specializes so I would just you know always tell people to make sure

[00:09:01] Do your due diligence get on the websites

[00:09:04] You know things can change in a matter of a day or two

[00:09:08] That I would never even know about so I'm always happy to help facilitate people

[00:09:13] To do what they want to do in the business and show them what I did you know there's things that are standard with setting up

[00:09:19] This has to come before this and that kind of stuff

[00:09:23] But for even even as far as money and streaming

[00:09:27] Like how much you get for streaming, which is like nothing really

[00:09:31] You know

[00:09:33] You know all the times so always do your own deal

[00:09:37] Deodiligence being advocate for yourself in your music

[00:09:42] Yeah, okay. Well I have I have a question to kind of kick this all off but before I say that question

[00:09:47] I need to grab my pen and paper. I left it behind me so give me 30 seconds and then we'll keep going

[00:09:54] He really was going to get pen and paper. I thought it was some

[00:09:56] Yeah, that's just a new night joke where we were gonna have a great interest

[00:10:00] Then you really was getting some getting a pen and I yeah

[00:10:03] Okay, amazing

[00:10:05] Yeah, no. I really was I have a little like writing

[00:10:08] Area back here in that chair and I was sitting down here last night at midnight

[00:10:13] Writing some notes out and in the intro and all that stuff and I forgot that I had left

[00:10:18] My pencil and and pad

[00:10:21] Back there and so I'm like where am I not taking facilities?

[00:10:24] Pretty good far right right yeah, you know I don't plan so I might as well sit next to him

[00:10:32] So

[00:10:35] Leanne thank you again for being here and so the the first question I wanted to jump into was

[00:10:41] You know everyone knows what the streaming services are these days, right? It's pretty much

[00:10:47] The lifeblood of how people consume music

[00:10:50] You know, we're not gonna get into a physical media and all that stuff

[00:10:54] But you know everyone

[00:10:56] knows what Spotify is YouTube music Apple music etc

[00:11:02] How does an artist go from a song that they have recorded and then?

[00:11:08] You know want to release it and it seems like a very simple question and and doesn't really have a very simple answer

[00:11:16] I know when I started out I didn't exactly know where to turn so I asked the look bunch of people

[00:11:21] What do you guys do so I'm sure that there's a lot of people out there that still are unsure

[00:11:27] How they even go about

[00:11:29] Getting their music onto the streaming platforms

[00:11:33] Instead of self releasing something on say sound cloud

[00:11:37] So how does someone begin this process? It's very at a very first thing you have got to do even if you're gonna release on sound cloud

[00:11:45] Okay, like if you want to put something out into the ether

[00:11:50] You've got to look at these licensing

[00:11:54] Companies now there are there's three of them

[00:11:59] BMI as cap and see stack

[00:12:02] Takes the sack out of it because it's it's pretty much a buy invitation only

[00:12:10] Licensing company they they work with a lot of big film and TV and that's

[00:12:15] Kind of it's neat. That's like a great goal. It's a great place to live

[00:12:21] but most of us are in BMI or ASCAP and

[00:12:27] It's regional you can look up online and like I got to be my Nashville because I work in Nashville all the time

[00:12:35] But I was because I live in the north affiliated with

[00:12:39] You know my region. I used to call this Chicago offices

[00:12:43] So where are your closest to you is usually where you make a phone call too?

[00:12:50] But all of them are connected. They're not different entities

[00:12:54] So if it's BMI it's BMI across the nation they just have hubs in

[00:13:00] Major cities New York LA Chicago

[00:13:04] I think there's one in Atlanta now, but don't hold me to that Nashville

[00:13:09] So

[00:13:11] I'm long to BMI. I have a lot of friends up along to ASCAP

[00:13:15] You have to belong to one or the other

[00:13:19] You pick pick pick one

[00:13:21] There very much the same kind of entities BMI used to work a lot more with

[00:13:28] songwriters and singers it was

[00:13:31] I just liked it better and

[00:13:33] Everybody in my band when I was young I joined BMI when I was 17 or 18 years old

[00:13:40] The guys in my band who were all older than me that's where they belong so that's right joined it is pretty much

[00:13:46] What I did so there's no this one's better than that when it just

[00:13:51] Pick one but you can only pick one now. That doesn't mean that if you get in and you're like I really don't want to be here

[00:13:58] I don't like this or you have a

[00:14:01] a bad

[00:14:02] You know experience you can move to the other one like you aren't there for the rest of your life

[00:14:08] You can but you can't belong to both at the same time

[00:14:13] If that makes sense

[00:14:15] Yeah, so

[00:14:17] Does someone

[00:14:19] What comes first signing up for say distro kid or

[00:14:23] contacting BMI and and signing up again?

[00:14:26] Need to get with your music licensing house first you have to get to BMI or ask cap first

[00:14:35] because you will get like your own private

[00:14:41] Code your number like you'll have a BMI number that you will need

[00:14:47] when you go to these

[00:14:49] district kids CD baby that you will need to plug in as a publisher

[00:14:54] and as a songwriter so that that attaches your royalties that that's a way of

[00:15:01] finding

[00:15:02] You know you're published with BMI so now as you go to

[00:15:07] You know CD baby or distro kid or tune core

[00:15:11] You have those numbers established

[00:15:15] In the in the big wheel and the you know it's part of

[00:15:19] Part of your

[00:15:20] Promotion and going through that is everybody understand you get that like yeah

[00:15:26] It's the very first thing you need to do because they're the ones that

[00:15:31] blanket

[00:15:32] You know everything

[00:15:35] So now I have a question um

[00:15:37] BMI is there a requirement um to be like do you have to have so many songs or is it just you have one song and you can or you don't have any songs

[00:15:47] And you can you can be a member of BMI okay that's a really good question

[00:15:51] You can join BMI

[00:15:54] You might need one song because you have to register something

[00:15:58] You know but I don't think

[00:16:00] You can join and then get a song and register it but BMI is not gonna work for you

[00:16:07] Like it's not it be a Mice part of your process to release thing music

[00:16:13] So if you're not releasing music it's kind of a mute point

[00:16:17] To belong to BMI or ask app but

[00:16:21] You can join it is free I know

[00:16:24] BMI is free to join as a songwriter

[00:16:29] Then you can also join as a as your own independent publisher

[00:16:36] Which that's what I am because I want all the money

[00:16:41] You know you want you want to control as much of your ownership if especially here a songwriter

[00:16:51] So say you

[00:16:53] Say since we'll use least since he's been on the show. Lee and I are writing partners on songs

[00:17:01] So we split

[00:17:03] So he gives a portion I get a portion of this song writing

[00:17:08] Now we are both I

[00:17:10] Help him get into the publishing you know joining up and becoming a publisher with BMI

[00:17:16] I believe now and like I said don't quote me look online

[00:17:21] I paid $150 for a lifetime membership

[00:17:26] Which for me I'm like that's fine, you know

[00:17:30] I mean heck I spend more than that. Yes, not a lot of money. No it's it's really not I can do that in whiskey

[00:17:36] You know some

[00:17:38] Great

[00:17:42] So you know what we joined we made our publishing companies and then you oh then you decide on the splits of what is fair for

[00:17:54] Every song is different like this is a 50 50 year. This is a 70 30

[00:17:59] And are you worth that out with the people that you're writing with?

[00:18:03] I think it's really important on a side note as a songwriter when you get in the room with people

[00:18:11] Make sure that that it's a very uncomfortable conversation

[00:18:15] But make sure you set the parameters by which you want to

[00:18:20] Split songs or what you think were those words are it'll save you an immense amount of headache and argument or weird

[00:18:29] Conversations about

[00:18:32] Well, I brought the bridges so how much publishing does that

[00:18:37] I get like kind of

[00:18:40] Right you kind of have to make that you know sit down and everybody look at the pie and decide what is an equitable fair equitable

[00:18:49] You know

[00:18:50] Trink is when you're younger when you don't have any hits

[00:18:54] It's like yeah, I don't care

[00:18:57] But if you just want to get your music out there and you strike gold though and there's some real money coming in then people start

[00:19:06] What do you mean but I wrote you know if it wasn't for me so

[00:19:10] Kind of if you can establish that

[00:19:14] Have the tough conversation early. It's much easier

[00:19:19] So the the adage of right award get a third is

[00:19:25] Yeah, you find yourself writing with people that you trust and all you usually

[00:19:31] People who do this are very fair fair about it in the ones that aren't

[00:19:37] I'm not working with them too much of a hassle

[00:19:40] Yeah

[00:19:42] That guy's friend of thing in music doesn't they I work with the people that were hard to work with yeah

[00:19:47] This is at the end of the day for me. I know it's a business

[00:19:52] But if it's not giving me joy

[00:19:54] I don't walk out feeling better than when I walked in

[00:19:57] Then I have spent a day not doing what I'm supposed to do

[00:20:02] Yeah, that's good to keep in yeah

[00:20:07] So get your publishing and get your yeah get your publishing set up first

[00:20:13] Be on my is that is that the same license that

[00:20:17] for live music is at the same

[00:20:20] Company that does licensing for venues to

[00:20:24] Allow live musicians to do cover songs is that the same thing or am I no you're one of them

[00:20:32] Okay, be in my and all of them. They all do that they hit the clubs and they want licensing fees

[00:20:38] I've noticed

[00:20:41] that

[00:20:43] The more streaming services have taken over the industry

[00:20:47] the more licensing companies have had to

[00:20:51] look at

[00:20:53] getting a way of an income stream

[00:20:58] It seems like the lockdown has become harder and harder

[00:21:04] Because they feel that you're making your playing songs

[00:21:09] That they on that they represent the publishing too

[00:21:14] And it's not just BMI that does it it's as cap it's all of them

[00:21:18] And those artists should be compensated for

[00:21:27] them making money

[00:21:30] Listening to their songs that performed

[00:21:34] So if you are

[00:21:37] You're gonna get a new job

[00:21:39] I'm so

[00:21:42] No, but like I want to be like if you're a venue and you're kind of like everything is

[00:21:49] If you're a venue and you're getting licensing, do you have to get one from BMI and ask cap because like different artists belong to different ones or is it just like

[00:21:58] If you got one or the other or does that matter or I'm just curious

[00:22:04] Yeah, well I only know this because I'm in the like I play originals, but I play covers too

[00:22:09] And I've been I've been a musician my whole life

[00:22:13] And it is my understanding from club owners yelling at me

[00:22:20] What is this crap

[00:22:22] Um, that they have everybody comes after them

[00:22:27] Every everyone, everybody wants a part of that pie

[00:22:32] So you're like knock knock knock

[00:22:33] Right, that's cap here knock knock knock

[00:22:36] BMI here knock knock knock knock

[00:22:38] You know and this is what a little patio bar that seats I don't know 50 people

[00:22:44] Yeah, I would not have thought that that the

[00:22:49] you know

[00:22:50] Back patio club would even have any of those

[00:22:56] To worry about it. It's my understanding

[00:22:59] That even if you have yep if you have TVs on your patio

[00:23:06] That there is mechanical licensing it just the beast just gets bigger and bigger and

[00:23:14] bigger

[00:23:16] Yes, and it's it's it's not and people need to understand. It's not the musicians that are doing this

[00:23:22] It's not us that are playing that are doing this

[00:23:26] This is a corporate issue

[00:23:29] way above my pay grade

[00:23:32] But I have suffered the same thing my friend. Yes, for years and I've lost I've lost venues because they can't afford

[00:23:44] The light they face there some of them have been asked to know they were $5,000 each one of the

[00:23:52] Companies for little you know quaint little wine places that you're just

[00:23:58] You know it's a Sunday afternoon nice little gig

[00:24:03] So it's not just and it's rated on how many people are in the venue and it'll pro rate

[00:24:10] One V is

[00:24:12] From what I understand I've never you know this is just like I said venue owners

[00:24:17] yelling at me about it and me just kind of learning a little bit of that stuff, but yeah

[00:24:24] Wow, I had no idea

[00:24:27] Yeah, I've heard a little bit about this stuff just because some venues have

[00:24:32] Told me about it. They're like oh yeah, we just got our license against stuff like that for for live music

[00:24:36] So we'd like to now start doing live music and I'm like, oh okay, I never thought to ask like

[00:24:42] You know

[00:24:42] From what agency for what you know what is all that in tail? I'm just like yeah, I'm just gonna play some 90s coverage for you

[00:24:48] You know

[00:24:49] Yeah, and you know, and I'll fit like

[00:24:53] I believe it's songwriters because I'm a songwriter

[00:24:56] We should get you should get paid for creating art

[00:25:00] But if you're gonna do that to the clubs

[00:25:04] Then can we talk about getting paid through our streaming services too, which is a bomb animal?

[00:25:12] It's you know

[00:25:15] I thought on something what you're saying. I mean Taylor Swift seems to make a fortune right now

[00:25:24] What's the difference between a PRO and an MRO? Like what's the mechanical license versus the or the

[00:25:31] Mechanical rights organizations versus like the

[00:25:34] Performance or

[00:25:38] The PRO yeah

[00:25:41] Mechanical let me get this string

[00:25:45] Mechanical rights are

[00:25:49] Say I recorded

[00:25:51] I have recorded I have two cover songs that I've put out in the ether

[00:25:56] I had to pay for mechanical rights. I used to go to like Harry box agency

[00:26:01] To do mechanical license saying which means your pay for the right

[00:26:07] To back in the day was just record the song now there's

[00:26:11] Sampling and all kinds of it it's just exploded because of all the different genres using

[00:26:18] Really big hooks from guitar riffs or whatever

[00:26:22] so you go in and

[00:26:27] You pay

[00:26:29] Ex amount of dollars or you used for every album you were going to print that had that song on it used to be something like

[00:26:38] 8 cents per song

[00:26:42] That you were gonna print onto your CD or album. I don't know what the cost is now because

[00:26:47] Now I only release if I do a cover song I only release it

[00:26:52] streaming

[00:26:54] Because

[00:26:57] district kid

[00:26:59] Actually has a place in when you're launching your song

[00:27:04] That if it is a cover song you can pay a yearly I believe it's a dollar 99 per song a year

[00:27:11] And they could take care of the mechanical licensing on it

[00:27:15] They pay the songwriters they pay the publishers

[00:27:19] You don't have to worry about that you pay them

[00:27:22] They have everything is computerized now so they know how to just get in and find who you're looking for

[00:27:30] And that is handled

[00:27:32] Thank you district

[00:27:33] I've actually done that once. I covered a Joe Guild or song okay, and I released it on

[00:27:40] Spotify I took it down because I didn't want to pay for the yearly thing

[00:27:45] And also I was changing out what was on Spotify and streaming services anyways

[00:27:50] But but yeah, I remember going through that and they're like oh just type in the artist and you typed in the artist name and and

[00:27:57] They're like we'll figure it out. Yeah, cool. Yeah, it makes it that's a really cool performance

[00:28:03] I think that's why a lot of people are releasing covers

[00:28:06] And I don't think that's wrong. I mean, I think if you can look at Tracy Chapman's like a fast car

[00:28:13] Hmm, right please please somebody pick up one of my songs and do something like that with it

[00:28:19] You look great sure

[00:28:21] Well, just retire. Yeah, I could make I could buy more than that you know a

[00:28:26] Diet Coke with my streaming

[00:28:30] Yeah, yeah, I've had a I did the song a couple years ago with a friend in Australia and

[00:28:36] To date we've made

[00:28:39] $8 in total on that song

[00:28:43] Yeah, I mean yeah, that's a lot of downloads. I

[00:28:47] That that that's a lot yeah eight bucks and we released the song in 2017. I mean

[00:28:54] That's how you pay for those guitars my friend

[00:28:58] That's right. I paid for all these guitars

[00:29:00] All this

[00:29:03] Wait one cent a month

[00:29:07] So in a PRL is performing rights organization is it's like that's BMI and as cat those are they

[00:29:20] They are represented they represent your copyrighted work. Okay, so that's your PRL is for you

[00:29:27] Let's be my ask cap a mechanical license

[00:29:31] Is what you need to get for yourself

[00:29:35] When you're covering

[00:29:37] Somebody else's song or if somebody's licensing a song a

[00:29:44] sample or those kind of things

[00:29:48] That is my understanding okay. I want to I want to return back to samples in a little bit

[00:29:53] But um because that that's kind of its own

[00:29:57] Sidebar as it is but I want to talk about the

[00:30:03] Digital platform like district or CD baby

[00:30:07] Ben you use

[00:30:09] Lander right I do

[00:30:11] Right and

[00:30:13] Your own reasons yeah equally I don't I've never signed

[00:30:17] I've never signed up with BMI. I didn't know anything about this bit

[00:30:20] I just signed up with lander and click the district view button and my music paid places

[00:30:24] It was amazing that's uh that's how advanced my knowledge of this was so that's mental note go back and review that

[00:30:32] As me as well, you know I have a

[00:30:35] You may be not getting some some royalties that are due you because you don't have a PRL

[00:30:43] Maybe yeah it might be like 40 cents

[00:30:50] Yeah as against 10 but hey

[00:30:54] 40 cents is 40 cents don't knock it. I mean, you know you find a quarter on the street and that changes your day

[00:30:59] I am a big believer. I pick pennies up off the ground. It's free money

[00:31:05] Why wouldn't you?

[00:31:07] Right like don't be an idiot

[00:31:09] Right so if you know people like Ben and I have signed up for district kid or lander or whatever and we've put our men and kneels

[00:31:17] We're all in the same boat where we have released music and we haven't signed up for BMI

[00:31:22] Raskab and I'm sure a lot of people that are listening to this are in the same boat that we have so

[00:31:29] You had indicated that you should go to BMI Raskab first and sign up there and then go to a digital

[00:31:35] Disribution platform and proceed forward if somebody has done it like we have

[00:31:41] What happens if you sign up for BMI Raskab now at this point?

[00:31:45] Do those things pro-racobac or is it like that's the line of the sand and now you'll be earning money on

[00:31:54] Those royalties going forward. You know that's a very fair question and I'll give you a very fair answer

[00:32:00] I'm not sure

[00:32:02] That's okay. Okay, not that's great honestly because I've never had any that's okay

[00:32:07] Usually like my students here

[00:32:10] If I know they're getting into songwriting. I get them. I get them into a puro first

[00:32:15] um I

[00:32:18] believe and

[00:32:21] I would I would think that there would be a it would go back so far but there's only so far it will go back

[00:32:29] but yeah

[00:32:32] You know, you know, I don't know

[00:32:34] You know what I would suggest is to just get in there

[00:32:38] um

[00:32:40] You have to make a pretty

[00:32:42] bunch of streams to start seeing any kind of real residual

[00:32:48] from BMI or ASCAP

[00:32:52] And like I said I got my I've been doing this forever and I know there are things that I have done that have been lost in the

[00:32:59] ether through

[00:33:02] You know lawsuits and that kind of stuff

[00:33:05] Um, but I just started now getting my first

[00:33:10] That E BMI checks. I took pictures of them

[00:33:14] I'm like I think that friend BMI

[00:33:17] That's awesome

[00:33:19] Well I end up this is this is something really good for our listeners to take note of

[00:33:24] Is if you are not associated with a publishing

[00:33:29] Alphate like BMI or ASCAP

[00:33:32] Go and do that because you know you might not see

[00:33:36] a huge return on that right away

[00:33:39] But again who knows it doesn't take much these days for a song to get picked up in some capacity and catch fire

[00:33:47] Right, and you want to be ready for when that might yes. That's why I always do

[00:33:53] those extra things

[00:33:55] There's another thing that is almost like a people name and talk about it much anymore and that's actually getting

[00:34:02] Copyrights through the library of Congress

[00:34:06] Okay

[00:34:08] The lat... I can even look up here. The last I checked it was $35 a song

[00:34:15] To register with the library of Congress

[00:34:19] Now if you are smart everybody be smart

[00:34:25] You can do collections of songs

[00:34:28] So you can do if you are the sole songwriter on a song or on ten songs you do like

[00:34:37] Liam Binder's collection number one and you put all of those songs

[00:34:44] In at once and then you still only pay it's like 35 or it's so much cheaper to do it that way

[00:34:51] If you have different songwriters

[00:34:55] Say we do Liam and Lee all of our songs are gonna be copyrighted as

[00:35:01] Lianna Lee's volume number one

[00:35:04] You can do that but they have to be the same songwriters

[00:35:09] On the songs they can't be different ones

[00:35:12] Now why would you want to pay for the library of Congress when you pretty much yeah

[00:35:19] With all the digital stuff that's in the world

[00:35:24] Everything is timestamped it's really hard to prove fraud nowadays

[00:35:29] But it wasn't bad. I don't think all that hormones

[00:35:32] Copyright no no don't put it that's when you put it in and envelope and mail it to yourself

[00:35:38] Okay, I don't believe that will really ever work but yeah, I was gonna ask about that

[00:35:43] With the timestamps I thought well maybe that's a newer digital

[00:35:48] New way of hormones copyright or if that's

[00:35:53] Not even because you have digital like everybody you're produced everybody's got digital timestamps on all of their stuff

[00:36:02] So it's pretty hard for somebody to go well I wrote this and blah blah

[00:36:06] Line you're like well dude. Here's my stems like negative

[00:36:11] Yeah, but

[00:36:13] Entertainment lawyer when we were talking she was working with me getting me through an issue and um

[00:36:22] She said you know it

[00:36:25] If you would have

[00:36:28] Had this copy written already through the library of Congress and it goes to court

[00:36:35] The and you were it was found in your favor that there was this was faster this was

[00:36:41] The all of your um

[00:36:43] Legal fees would have been paid for

[00:36:46] Oh wow

[00:36:50] Because you've registered it already I did a

[00:36:53] For my yeah, if I would have registered it with the library of Congress already it

[00:36:58] I had a song stolen believer

[00:37:03] A long time ago and

[00:37:05] It was stolen by an entertainment lawyer

[00:37:10] Put on to a move put on to a movie soundtrack as the featured song on it

[00:37:19] And I got a call going

[00:37:21] Li and do you know your songs on blah blah blah

[00:37:25] And I go I

[00:37:27] Looked up on like she kind of be freaking kidding me

[00:37:32] Wow, so I was right in the middle of working

[00:37:36] With some other people from Chicago and a friend of mine the executive producer on

[00:37:42] One of my albums said you need to call this woman she's a very high profile entertainment lawyer

[00:37:49] And I called her and I go I can't even afford a conversation with you like I know like I can't afford you

[00:37:57] She's like oh, this is way beyond

[00:38:00] The I'm in like she just lit her rear end on fire and um

[00:38:06] We had oh yeah that the whole story is beyond the pale yeah unlike an entertainment lawyer stealing your music like what yeah

[00:38:15] You can't even make that shit up

[00:38:19] My life is spinal tap I'm telling you

[00:38:23] I think just incorporating music and write a book

[00:38:26] Wow

[00:38:28] He's dead that's the T-ass she is what is this copyright and I go it was

[00:38:34] He used even my scratch vocal like it was it wasn't even finished. Yeah, I

[00:38:41] bet it sounded great though. It was pretty good

[00:38:47] But I can tell like

[00:38:49] This is my scratch vocal on this thing. I'm like I want to kill this guy

[00:38:53] I remember pulling into like a random

[00:38:56] Ice cream shop

[00:38:58] Parking lot and just be rating this human being like I will kill you

[00:39:06] And um yeah, so it I won

[00:39:10] Unfortunately was not copyright it was not copyrighted

[00:39:17] Because everything had been stolen before I even had a chance to finish all my stuff and

[00:39:24] So my legal fees kind of weight off

[00:39:28] When I got out of this settlement

[00:39:31] It was worth it. Yeah, but you know

[00:39:36] So I'm saying like some of this due diligence stuff

[00:39:39] You think never will happen but it could happen

[00:39:43] Well that's the thing is no one ever really think something and this goes beyond music right no one ever thinks something's going to happen

[00:39:49] And then it just does it happens out of the blue unexpectedly you don't see it coming

[00:39:55] With copyrighting in the library of congress that is you know utilizing a very official channel to have your music time stand

[00:40:05] Oh, it's not dates. Yeah

[00:40:08] Notarized if you go right. Yes

[00:40:11] Now what about

[00:40:13] Social platforms like sound cloud where they have you know like I know plenty of people that upload

[00:40:21] Ideas were rough

[00:40:23] Tracks to sound cloud and I've never been one of those people because I'm always afraid that someone's going to steal that idea

[00:40:30] Right, but if sound cloud

[00:40:32] You know it's time stamp. It's date stamp that shows proof of ownership before something is that a legit platform or a

[00:40:40] Legit method to protect yourself if you're not going to go the route of full copy well first of all you can't full copy rate

[00:40:47] Something that's not fully done

[00:40:50] Like okay, I don't know that's good to know

[00:40:52] I'm just

[00:40:54] Critically thinking this I don't know that there's a way to I'm gonna copyright these eight bars

[00:41:02] I don't know that I don't know that that can happen or like this is what I

[00:41:06] but I think

[00:41:09] Believe would be that sound cloud is already gone down that rabbit hole and if they are

[00:41:15] Allowing that there is time stamps to what you have created which would I would assume and I'm not an entertainment lawyer

[00:41:24] But I would assume that would hold up

[00:41:27] You know because digital everything is made things

[00:41:30] So much different it's so hard to do what has happened to me

[00:41:36] You know I just happen to be doing it my whole life and

[00:41:40] And hold enough to have gone through

[00:41:42] Some of that error where that stuff did happen

[00:41:46] Yeah

[00:41:48] Okay, well that's good to know because I've I've been hesitant to put stuff on sound cloud for that very reason

[00:41:54] But it's good to know that that

[00:41:57] Just built into that platform is a degree of protection

[00:42:01] Yeah, there would be that show that you are and oh yeah

[00:42:03] That would have to be I can't imagine

[00:42:06] I can't imagine that they didn't vet that this through

[00:42:10] People that know way more about

[00:42:14] All of that licensing than I do

[00:42:16] I would just think they would that would have to be in place so they wouldn't have even offered it

[00:42:22] Yeah, okay good to know

[00:42:25] You know as the next song gets stolen

[00:42:27] I don't know

[00:42:29] Well, I mean, I'm sure it happens a lot more than then people realize especially when you're talking about

[00:42:36] You know eight bars right a riff

[00:42:39] It's I mean

[00:42:41] Eight

[00:42:42] Let's talk about eight notes right you know so let's talk about the fact of of sampling music

[00:42:47] So this is this ties into earlier and and sampling music that's a huge

[00:42:53] Part of music making these days as you see people sample stuff all the time and you know there's recent

[00:43:00] Instances

[00:43:02] Where sampling has gotten people into trouble. I believe Kanye West ran into that recently

[00:43:08] We can go all the way back to you know

[00:43:11] Queen and David Bowie versus

[00:43:14] vanilla ice and the famous riff that we all know about and you know

[00:43:20] So listen if you want do a little bit of research there and go look up that case and what it talks about

[00:43:27] It's interesting yeah, I mean I'm done

[00:43:31] And he's like no no I went done done done like come on dude

[00:43:35] Yeah, it was a big it was a fiasco

[00:43:37] I remember what had happened because I I'm very Queen

[00:43:42] Like we're gonna do there's not even a thought of it from you

[00:43:45] I'm like that

[00:43:46] Was not

[00:43:48] But it's that precedent it did what it needed to do legally

[00:43:52] Yeah, I'm team Freddy as well. Oh my god and love Freddy Mercury

[00:43:57] I love all of them

[00:44:00] Yeah, no they're they're great and it's so great to see Brian may still do and stuff these days

[00:44:05] I saw Queen yeah now without him remember like three times

[00:44:11] Oh and um I went

[00:44:14] That because it's kind of going off topic. I went in not you know going

[00:44:20] Okay, and I thought that it was a brilliant

[00:44:26] Um evening of Queen music

[00:44:29] Adam's voice is it's just there it's one of a kind

[00:44:35] And I think that Brian May and whoever was responsible for

[00:44:42] merging

[00:44:44] Queen with bringing in a new singer and not offending

[00:44:48] People who love Freddy so much I thought it was done brilliantly

[00:44:53] I really do I've heard the same from other people and I agree

[00:44:58] I think that yeah, we are getting apart but I agree

[00:45:00] I think that that you know someone like Adam Lambert is probably the only person

[00:45:05] Who could rightfully hold a torch up to

[00:45:08] Freddy the the persona that is Freddy Mercury agreed you know

[00:45:13] And I think it was an absolutely appropriate choice and really well actually yeah, I agree completely 100%

[00:45:21] Can I ask you about your thoughts on the edge sheirin lawsuit about the

[00:45:30] guitar riff that

[00:45:32] Like supposedly

[00:45:35] Marvin Gays camp thought that Ed Sheirin do you remember that that lawsuit and you know it was like a

[00:45:41] couple months ago yeah, yeah and Ed Sheirin won that like you can't copy right a

[00:45:50] A chord progression but

[00:45:52] It was clearly more than just a chord progression because my goodness like if you lay the two traps

[00:45:57] You get them in the right key you lay them over each other. It's

[00:46:01] It's it's basically Ed Sheirin copied that guitar riff yeah, but he won because it's

[00:46:11] Like how many times have like riffs like that just chord progression riff

[00:46:16] Styles and whatnot just happens right I mean yeah every every note there's only there's only 11 notes

[00:46:23] in the scale right 12 if you're counting the octah

[00:46:28] Every those 11 notes can only make so many combinations of chords yeah that's why what is the chances that

[00:46:35] That somebody's going to invent a new chord that can you know

[00:46:38] But I thought he was gonna lose that because like not only was it the chord progression

[00:46:43] But to me it was the feel it was the real

[00:46:46] Yeah, there was too much a lot more than just the chord progression. Yeah, you could you can't copy you cannot

[00:46:51] Copyright a chord progression and I believe you cannot copy right a song title

[00:47:01] Because if you think of like Sarah

[00:47:05] Like you know like

[00:47:08] There are just if you look up songs there are different songs name the same name

[00:47:14] So I think that that because it's just a title

[00:47:18] You know

[00:47:20] Now I don't know the people should go out and go I'm going to write a song called bohemian or

[00:47:25] Appcity you know, I think you're gonna

[00:47:27] Right into and you know a little bit of an issue right into a prior

[00:47:31] But you know some songs some things like

[00:47:38] I don't know I'm trying to think like feelings or you know something that's a very broad spectrum

[00:47:44] name I think is very difficult to prove any kind of a copyright issue

[00:47:49] Courts of the same thing you cannot copyright courts because

[00:47:54] You know E a and B if you own them then you know like 95% every freaking blues

[00:48:02] Van you know

[00:48:04] Right I think it is

[00:48:07] And that's where that queen vanilla ice things starts really moving into things it is

[00:48:17] So many notes that are the same

[00:48:20] If I somebody correct me if I'm going wrong off of this

[00:48:23] Like I think you can only have they can't be more than

[00:48:27] It can't be eight notes or there's something about eight notes being the

[00:48:31] The parameter by which if you go more than that in a row

[00:48:36] That somebody else has done like that based don't know mo mo on our own boom

[00:48:42] Then you've got to know I think that's where sampling started to come in and people started paying for bits of

[00:48:50] That's what you need to pay if you want to use

[00:48:53] What was it? I can't do some 90s wrapper that used a van hayland

[00:49:01] guitar riff

[00:49:03] You know and they said that's when I think all of that sampling and sequencing

[00:49:08] Started to become big people like yeah, you could or somebody used like Billy Jean

[00:49:14] Or bad or something you're like great you want to use that then you pay the same place and find it

[00:49:21] Right

[00:49:22] Well and and as

[00:49:24] History is shown us

[00:49:26] Rules are put into place because something happened and forced a hand, right?

[00:49:30] So like you know all of this sync licensing and

[00:49:35] Mechanical licensing is in place because somebody at one point got away with it and pissed the wrong person off and now we have the rule right so

[00:49:46] Yeah, you know so it's it's a very you know the slippery slow by think if you just I think some things are written

[00:49:56] By mistake by happens dance so and I write stuff. I'm like I will call people under does this sound like anybody else like do you me

[00:50:04] We go oh my god, yeah

[00:50:07] Yeah, I've tons of ideas that are you know

[00:50:11] Idea underscore and then the band that it's kind of like right because

[00:50:16] A that helps me sort of like categorize the feeling or the vibe of the song but also

[00:50:21] sometimes my idea is

[00:50:23] Almost a direct rip off of the band and it's just me trying to make something kind of like that without

[00:50:30] Copy, yes

[00:50:31] But sometimes again, it will too close to the sun right? Yeah, I think but all music has inspired by music that has come before you

[00:50:38] Right absolutely that's all that's another art is inspired by art that is come

[00:50:44] Absolutely

[00:50:46] You know we wouldn't have we wouldn't have Dave girls drumming on never mind and smells like teen spirit

[00:50:53] Had it not been for the disco bands. Oh yeah, you know, can you listen to grow enough

[00:51:00] What's the

[00:51:02] Man the name is escaping me all of a sudden yeah the band that he told the drummer he ripped off and the drummers like yeah

[00:51:08] It's like

[00:51:11] No

[00:51:13] All right, I'm gonna I'm pulling out my phone because that's super professional

[00:51:20] You guys keep going

[00:51:21] I'm gonna lift this up and I'll come back

[00:51:24] But you're right, you know, I mean like all music is derivative from other music all it has inspiration for music has come from other music

[00:51:34] Yeah, you can't I think it's our job. I think it's our job to take what came before us and

[00:51:42] And and move it forward like that's part of what we're supposed to do is create a risk

[00:51:48] You know, that's

[00:51:51] Absolutely, but it does get very it gets very difficult

[00:51:56] because

[00:51:58] The internet and all of the

[00:52:01] You know, coachals or logic and all of this stuff is made it so much easier to just

[00:52:06] automatically borrow was called it borrow

[00:52:10] From other people

[00:52:12] digitally

[00:52:13] That you know, it can get a little squirrely with folks and

[00:52:19] I think there's a big difference to tipping your hat to something and then just blatantly taking somebody's work

[00:52:28] Some yeah, yeah even in the edge here in

[00:52:33] lawsuit something like he argued that the rift that they're even quoting was ripped off from previous artists

[00:52:42] You know, so like yeah not ripped off but my inspired by

[00:52:47] Previous artists it's it's a it's that style of music it's that

[00:52:53] Yeah, I mean you can go to the down grab it holes because I played in a lot of blues rock kind of stuff like you know

[00:52:59] Zepelin has been beaten about for a lot of these older

[00:53:05] You know old blues tunes that they you know that they stepped into and

[00:53:11] You know washed and is uplin and

[00:53:13] Did anybody ever get paid those royalties for

[00:53:18] You know dilemma and song or whatever

[00:53:22] you know I

[00:53:24] Think I think you just start draw as musicians. I

[00:53:28] I would I would like to believe that most of us are just it's extremely inspired by certain people

[00:53:35] And you just love it so much that it ingrained itself into who you are as a musician and then you

[00:53:41] Regurgitate it I don't know that there's a million people out there going I'm gonna go get the greatest

[00:53:48] guitar riff ever and I'm gonna tell people I made it you know what I mean

[00:53:54] Yeah, yeah exactly yeah, I don't think that's really how now but

[00:53:59] But you know uh musicians are inspired by the the music they listen to right and and that's as Neil said

[00:54:06] That's the natural progression of house songs

[00:54:09] There's bands that wouldn't be around today had it not been for the Beatles or for

[00:54:15] You know the who or whomever right so we are a product of those came before us and paying homage is

[00:54:25] Is how a lot of musicians

[00:54:28] Go about creating their music right but direct blatant ripping off

[00:54:34] Is something that unfortunately also happens and as an artist who is if there's somebody listening to this show

[00:54:42] And they're afraid that what they've created is

[00:54:47] too close to the inspiration

[00:54:50] Right it is

[00:54:52] Too close to the sun yeah, then they should get a second or a third opinion. Yeah, and

[00:54:58] You know tread carefully because

[00:55:00] You know you don't want to find yourself you don't want to find yourself in a courtroom with somebody who has

[00:55:06] Money due right because you should they check with who should they check with like because if you check with just your friend like yeah

[00:55:13] Kind of sounds like yeah, but yeah, well, I mean that's the first place. I would yeah

[00:55:17] I started right start you know usually don't you think though if you um

[00:55:22] Feel like oh wow like I really thought

[00:55:25] You know you know if you're like

[00:55:27] Yeah, yeah

[00:55:29] You I know I've written stuff and I'm like that's way too close to something right you know in and

[00:55:36] Deep inside and then your friends and then you know

[00:55:39] I think that using a qualified producer somebody who's really legit has you know

[00:55:46] Has some some

[00:55:49] Time and experience underneath them to say dude like you can't

[00:55:53] He can't do that

[00:55:55] He just you just really jump

[00:55:59] Yeah, yeah

[00:56:03] You know

[00:56:07] The I'd written jump now okay, so there's two there's two paths that I see if say somebody's in that situation

[00:56:14] They go to a friend they go to a well, you know a qualified producer

[00:56:20] Something like that and and they get back look man. This is way too close to this song

[00:56:25] I see there's two options that somebody could

[00:56:29] Three really but two to to move forward one they can abandon all together right just third in the trash and move on with their life

[00:56:36] Let's say it's not really an option. So you have two choices one you could say okay well

[00:56:42] Let's work you know it enlist the help of that producer to change that song

[00:56:47] So it's not quite so much like the original right pay homage instead of stealing

[00:56:52] two

[00:56:54] You could lean into the skid and

[00:56:58] Use jump as a sample and pay for the mechanical rights and go that route pay for or the use of this sample and then you know

[00:57:06] Produce the shit out of

[00:57:08] Right and make it your own right so I think those are like the two choices that someone could really pursue with that one

[00:57:14] Yeah, and remember you know

[00:57:17] It is my understanding that copyright comes from

[00:57:21] Like you can't copyright courts. We all know that okay if you don't yeah, you cannot copyright court

[00:57:28] You cannot copyright the title like a title is not

[00:57:34] You might be able to trade market which is different than copy rating that you own the trademark to it

[00:57:40] I think that's getting into a lot of stuff

[00:57:43] You copyrights are melody and

[00:57:47] lyric

[00:57:49] Okay

[00:57:51] So the melody the lyrics and the melody together so the work the change up for you know that is

[00:57:59] If you've written something that's leaning too heavy into a song

[00:58:04] Change the melody a little bit like work the melody around

[00:58:11] Because the quote or even you know take one chord and flip it and change the melody there's ways to not lose your creative

[00:58:20] What you're a little baby that you're trying to make without just like

[00:58:25] You know throw it at out with the bath water. I'm guessing that's why Ed Sheeran like won the lawsuit because it was like

[00:58:31] The chord progression so similar like the the what the feel and everything was similar

[00:58:37] However the melodies were completely different completely different and and like Marvin Gaysong didn't have a

[00:58:45] Corrid that was the chorus right where is Ed Sheeran had a completely different chorus

[00:58:50] Right that's exactly why you won

[00:58:53] So there I hope that answered

[00:58:56] That was the one way around

[00:59:00] No, but that's really good information and I'm glad we took the time to talk that out

[00:59:05] Because I certainly didn't

[00:59:07] Follow with that close right I remember

[00:59:10] That it had happened and

[00:59:12] This is this is really good. I think it's all

[00:59:15] Really good and yeah exactly get created right you've gotten a little too close to to that artist

[00:59:20] But just switch something and now it's your yes, I mean I've done it myself everybody's done it

[00:59:27] And you're like oh my god, I wrote a hit song

[00:59:29] No somebody before you wrote a hit song and you just regrids it. They did it

[00:59:35] That's good. So I often ever written a hit song

[00:59:37] Yeah

[00:59:40] I thought it was on to one and then

[00:59:43] Mr Turner stopped us

[00:59:45] He goes you can't write that

[00:59:47] Oh

[00:59:49] You're right I guess that just spoke he's such a spoofful

[00:59:52] I'm like oh, Lee really

[00:59:54] We started laughing I go I can't believe I call people on this phone

[01:00:02] Okay, so now let's let's jump into one more thing before we wrap this up because we are getting a little long

[01:00:10] I don't want to keep us all too long. I should say when you are navigating this world of releasing

[01:00:16] You've gone through BMI Ask app you have released your song on Spotify and all the streaming platforms

[01:00:23] You've used something like distro kid

[01:00:26] Maybe distro kid should reach out to us as a sponsor for this podcast. I'm not sure

[01:00:31] But

[01:00:35] Are they yeah, I'm sure I'm sure I would love to have a conversation with them hand-in

[01:00:40] um

[01:00:42] What what is something if people have you know making money off of streaming is as we know for the little guys

[01:00:51] Almost nearly futile right you're you're gonna make

[01:00:55] Fractions of a set on on dreams, right? So you're not looking at making a ton of money

[01:01:01] Let me create your song and your publishers

[01:01:04] Yes, even yeah exactly I'm gonna go spend my 64th of a penny

[01:01:09] on a 64th of a slice of gum. Yes, yeah, I don't know that yeah

[01:01:15] It's crazy to think that that's how much money people make from streaming it's fruit striped

[01:01:26] Oh

[01:01:28] They have fruit striped on an inklet no, I don't know what you're talking about

[01:01:34] What what's what's your gum that lasts? You know 30 seconds and then it turns into a rock

[01:01:39] What's the gum for you guys

[01:01:41] You know, I mean if it like the first 10 seconds you're like oh that's flavorful and then it's just like anything

[01:01:46] I'm brand that's not you know if it's not wickly is just yeah

[01:01:50] Stick like okay, like bazooka Joe like the the baseball card

[01:01:56] Cricket cards they're not allowed to eat all of that

[01:02:01] I'll go with that. Yeah, our government will have taken it away and banned it. It's fine

[01:02:09] Okay, I digress all right so if somebody wants to make more money from their music they can look into

[01:02:18] Licensing for TV and film and go that route right and so is that part of this whole same sync licensing

[01:02:24] Mechanical licensing all that stuff or is this a completely different conversation? Well

[01:02:29] It is it's all a part of it. If you were a songwriter, it is all a part of it

[01:02:35] I'm looking into getting into the sync and all of that kind of stuff world

[01:02:41] It is different than a record deal it is as

[01:02:45] difficult I'm finding as arduous as

[01:02:50] You know trying to land a deal when I was young

[01:02:56] But

[01:02:58] Because there there are people there are

[01:03:00] You know people in the industry that that's all they do is they they're the people in charge of

[01:03:08] You know putting music in into certain movies or putting and then each movie usually has like a musical director person that

[01:03:18] Is vetting music also there are some entertainment lawyers that can do that for you

[01:03:26] And then there's some things like crucial music and I can't think of a bunch of the names of them

[01:03:33] But you that you can do yourself and you get put into like a big library of

[01:03:41] Places that people go when they're looking for even small indie films or something like that

[01:03:47] And they they'll go through you're not represented by anybody but that

[01:03:52] Platform that you're using but I've had friends that have landed some stuff

[01:03:58] Through that

[01:04:00] You know and you're vetted they'll listen to go we don't have anything right now so we're not gonna you know

[01:04:05] Use any of those songs or they'll say oh

[01:04:08] We like these songs here so we're gonna we're gonna put them into our catalog the biggest thing you want to make sure

[01:04:16] Is that they don't

[01:04:18] The the only rights to your music like the only

[01:04:23] People that are allowed to distribute it

[01:04:25] You know you want to you want to use somebody that just uses

[01:04:29] Yeah, we can try and

[01:04:31] Place it and so can just move down the road trying to place it or if you happen to run into

[01:04:38] You know somebody in a bar one night and is looking for you can place it so you don't want somebody to own the the

[01:04:45] soul distribution of

[01:04:47] That song

[01:04:49] or songs

[01:04:50] So just make sure when you're looking at those online ones and there are some

[01:04:54] You know my friends have that have placed have been using this one called crucial music

[01:05:01] And you know that might be an option to you know a nice launch pad for for everybody

[01:05:09] especially cuz entertainment lawyers and

[01:05:12] you know think

[01:05:14] agencies

[01:05:16] They they easily have their stable it's hard to it's hard to break into that stuff

[01:05:21] Yeah, and

[01:05:23] Like if you're trying to pitch to artists

[01:05:26] They usually have people that you can't even get to them

[01:05:31] You know there's people in place that are vetting everything and they only use certain people to vet their music to get them

[01:05:39] To you another thing that was brought to my attention is if you're looking for think and for

[01:05:46] It's such a double-edged sword because you can blow up on tick-tock or whatever and a million people all of a sudden here in your music and somebody wants that

[01:05:54] But then again they can say

[01:05:57] Well, you've already exploded that out into the world we don't want to use it now because in a month it's old

[01:06:04] So do you just sit on certain songs and only don't you know send them to think less and think places

[01:06:13] I have we have two songs right now that we're sitting on

[01:06:17] We were told please don't release these because we think they're highly sinkable and they will want to

[01:06:24] You'll we'll want to tie in that release with whatever it gets done on

[01:06:29] Yeah, I got I wish there was a real road map for everybody. I really do but it doesn't seem like there's any right way to do anything except

[01:06:38] Get to be a myrass cap find a distribution

[01:06:42] You know company to put yourself

[01:06:46] On Spotify get one thing we didn't and I think this is important

[01:06:51] Make sure that you get yourself everybody belongs to Spotify or Apple music get yourself

[01:06:57] Spotify for artists Apple music for artists yeah, like you have to do those because

[01:07:05] that differentiates your your

[01:07:09] platform

[01:07:11] being just like a guy that listens to music to

[01:07:15] 70s pushing product out

[01:07:18] And that's how you get that like verified check mark next to you

[01:07:23] Yeah, right

[01:07:25] same with YouTube get a channel yeah

[01:07:28] Get get yourself and all you can do all that online be a my you can do online

[01:07:34] You know library of congress. Everything is done online

[01:07:39] So and actually district get I think creates a

[01:07:44] YouTube channel

[01:07:46] Called your name and then topic or something like that yeah, they do but it's annoying

[01:07:52] Yeah, but that like mess up like

[01:07:57] Messers up the algorithm yeah right you get

[01:08:02] You get strikes against your chance when it gets thrown on district kids version of your channel

[01:08:07] So yeah, I don't know that's an interesting

[01:08:11] That's an interesting thought there for people you know

[01:08:14] I think district kid and other services they make it as easy as possible and they have they made it really easy

[01:08:20] But I think that there's a couple places where you know like that YouTube channel

[01:08:25] That's not yours but district kid creates it for you can bite you because when you want to go create yours now

[01:08:31] You're getting strikes against your own music

[01:08:34] Yeah, so and in the long one here's the thing

[01:08:39] You have to really blow up

[01:08:41] For any of that kind of stuff to really make a difference

[01:08:46] You know, you know you're splitting

[01:08:50] 0.008

[01:08:52] 6% of a penny

[01:08:55] You know through songwriting and publishing and all of that kind of stuff

[01:09:00] We just had this conversation when I was in Nashville this week about how

[01:09:05] A friend of mine was like, you know, we were on and this is really gonna date them so I have all these names

[01:09:12] We they were on the warp tour

[01:09:14] And they had a my space with hundreds of thousands of followers

[01:09:21] Warp tour in my space was my bread and butter. I am very familiar with that that is how I

[01:09:26] Yeah, and then everything that is my jam that I miss work. Yeah, and then everything went away almost

[01:09:34] And what's to say that this one

[01:09:37] Was dreaming like what there will be it there will be something else

[01:09:42] Something's going to it's it's the nature of the beast

[01:09:48] Even as I think

[01:09:51] I don't know I wish I knew the future. I by stalking it

[01:09:56] Don't don't we all right

[01:10:00] Can it change this and we didn't

[01:10:02] And we didn't even talk about releasing music physically which is a whole other

[01:10:07] You know beast on and uh uh unto itself and maybe definitely a topic for another you like

[01:10:14] On the final in CDs and

[01:10:17] Yeah, right things that the kids don't buy any while they buy the vinyl

[01:10:23] But they don't want then nobody wants the CD that's making it a comeback the vinyl. I mean

[01:10:28] You know every time I go to my local used bookstore. I always

[01:10:33] Perus the CD shows because I always find at least one CD that I'm like oh man

[01:10:38] I'd love to have this and it's like three dollars. That's great. I

[01:10:42] Love physical ideas. I

[01:10:45] Enjoy my streaming but I would much rather own the piece

[01:10:50] I found myself a sound better on analog

[01:10:53] I'm just I'm just better on vinyl

[01:10:56] There we go. That's the takeaway you know

[01:10:59] That is the takeaway

[01:11:01] I love everything that are on bond absolutely

[01:11:05] Absolutely

[01:11:07] For for people who are listening if you haven't gone out there and and associated yourself with BMI or Ask App do that

[01:11:14] It doesn't cost you anything at this point and that could change right at any time

[01:11:19] Well, the problem is thing to set up policy is 150 bucks

[01:11:23] But just yeah, but it's a software

[01:11:27] Yeah, right exactly so go and do that right and if you've already released music on on you know these digital distribution platforms find

[01:11:36] But set yourself up for success starting now with royalty payments and things like that

[01:11:42] You never know when lightning is gonna strike and you want to be ready for that

[01:11:47] Make sure that you are you know staying far enough away from your inspirations

[01:11:53] It's it's great to pay homage. It's not great to

[01:11:56] Get too close to that and and and stealing something and you know, you might regret it one day in a courtroom

[01:12:02] Hopefully not but it can happen

[01:12:06] And Dave Groal

[01:12:09] Was a fan of the gap band and that was there

[01:12:13] That was the he

[01:12:15] He ripped off as he so said and and was at a party and saw the drummer of the gap band and said you know I I

[01:12:23] The whole reason smells like teen spirit exists is because of you

[01:12:26] I took that riff and the guys like yeah, I know and it was all good

[01:12:31] You know when Dave Groal takes your riff and makes it into something a thousand times bigger

[01:12:37] I think you give him a high five at that point right?

[01:12:41] Yeah, so

[01:12:43] Yeah, thank you so much for spending time with us today talking about

[01:12:48] It's how to you know

[01:12:51] Navigate this world

[01:12:53] We were gonna title this show how to stand out and a saturated market

[01:12:57] But that's not even really what we ended up

[01:12:59] Kind of touching on

[01:13:01] This is really like you know

[01:13:04] Protecting your music music really seeing protecting yourself one-o-one, you know like this is

[01:13:09] It seems like basic stuff

[01:13:11] But I know that there's tons of people out there that have these questions and this

[01:13:16] Hopefully gives them some information

[01:13:19] That they can then go and and research further and learn more gives them a jumping off point

[01:13:24] to set themselves up for success

[01:13:27] Leon if somebody wanted to to reach out to you and ask you more questions or in list your services as a guide or a vocal coach or something

[01:13:36] Is there a website that they can reach you at and get in touch with you? Yeah, I have a website

[01:13:42] It's called Liam binder music.com

[01:13:46] And you can reach me on there and then I have you know all the socials Liam binder music on Insta

[01:13:53] Take to all it's it's blanketed. It's all branded across so if you just hit Liam binder music you will find me

[01:14:00] Right on well we'll post the link to that in the show description and

[01:14:06] Gaggis, is there any

[01:14:08] Sort of like last little thing you want to throw in there before we wrap it up? You know, I think just as someone who's been doing this

[01:14:14] Her whole life like the music has been my business and my love and my passion

[01:14:21] Everybody needs to understand that you have to advocate for yourself

[01:14:25] Now we have everything we have the computer and our fingertips

[01:14:29] If you don't feel like something's right look it up advocate look into this stuff

[01:14:35] because the business is

[01:14:37] Is

[01:14:39] Can be a little grimy and

[01:14:41] Not everybody's your friend

[01:14:44] Music will always be your friend. It's the people running stuff that might not always be your friend

[01:14:49] So take the time and do the due diligence because if you don't care about your music

[01:14:55] Guarantees nobody else well

[01:14:59] That's it wow nice that was well put

[01:15:03] That was like that boy that was great

[01:15:06] Thank you so much Liam thank you all for sharing your time today. Nice and fun Neil and Ben it's great to see you again

[01:15:12] And

[01:15:14] Well, I'll talk soon. Absolutely

[01:15:16] Thanks everybody take care guys

[01:15:56] So it can be found on our website or in the description area of your podcast player a big thank you to our guest

[01:16:03] For taking the time to chat with us today and to you

[01:16:06] The listener for taking time out of your busy schedule to be part of our discussion

[01:16:11] We look forward to having you join us again next month on another episode of sound discussion

[01:16:17] I can Vince myself. I sound better on analog I'm just I'm just better on vinyl